Polly Toynbee

20 July 2009

What is it about your political beliefs that put you on the Left rather than the Right?
To live on the left is to live optimistically, believing in progress despite set backs, hoping despite frequent disappointment, urging progress against right wing nostalgia for illusory “better yesterdays”. Life on the left means trusting that the better side of human nature can prevail against selfishness and greed. Good argument can always persuade enough people to see that a more socially just society is in everyone’s best interests. Life on the left means an instinctive defence of the underdog against the over-privileged, rooting for the have-nots against the power of the have-yachts.

To be a social democrat is to understand the value of good government as the best expression of collective social success against rampant anti-state individualism. Paying taxes towards good government is not a ‘burden’ but the most communitarian thing we do – and it buys the good life, all the things we care most for, such as health, education, safety and a pleasing environment. Yet we are wary too of any government’s potential for stifling freedoms and crushing individual initiative, seeking that delicate balance between liberty and equality. The right regards freedom to seize unjust rewards as party of human nature. The left resists all claim of “nature” as justification for winner takes all, eat-what-you-kill capitalism, while understanding the dynamic power of well-regulated markets.

Life on the left is a perpetual journey where definitions of social justice shift with the times. Social democrats have no ultimate egalitarian end-game, only the constant pursuit of better, fairer, kinder, more honest, more democratic ways to live together.

What do you consider made you Left wing?
My parents, and as many generations before them as I know about: I can’t claim a personal discovery of left wing verities. Gilbert and Sullivan’s song seems to be true:
“That every boy and every gal
That’s born into the world alive
Is either a little Liberal
Or else a little Conservative”
Set yourself down in any faraway place and it takes only a short discussion on local issues to find that same universal human fault line. Perhaps these are two sides to the human brain and societies need some of each – though a little conservatism goes a long way.

How would you describe the sort of society you want Britain to be?
Closer to the Nordics, further from American political culture, with a short and busy ladder from bottom to top as people travel more easily up and down the social rungs, without too much concern either way. That only happens in a country where lives are less sharply divided by education, class and money. Talent, enterprise, perseverance and hard work must always be rewarded, but more equally. The hard working care home assistant deserves to be well rewarded and well respected. The FTSE CEO now earning 100 times their average employee’s wage needs to be taken down some rungs to make that possible.

What one or two changes would make the biggest difference to bringing that about?
If Labour, all of whose members and ministers believe these things, would only stand up and proclaim them, they would find far stronger social democratic support than they fear. A whole generation has never heard these basic precepts laid out fair and square, without cautious triangulations strangling the simple message about what the good society might look like. There is nothing to lose now everything is nearly lost, so why not give it a try?

Secondly, in the remaining ten months, the cabinet should just do everything they ever wanted but were afraid to try. Go for broke – we’re broke already. Nail down the minimum wage by pegging it in perpetuity to average earnings, plus some, improving every year. Chase corporate tax dodgers with the same vigour they chase small time benefit cheats – and put up posters in City wine bars to say so. Give a college place to every young person who wants one this year, or unemployment will lose another generation. Give every child the same right to music, drama, art or sport sessions out of school as middle class children have.

What most makes you angry about the way Britain is now?
That Labour is about to lose, through their own cowardice, bungling, prevarication and lack of imagination.

Which person, event, era or movement from the past should we look to for inspiration now?
Lloyd George’s People’s Budget, and his parliament act to push it through – both revolutionary, and successful.

15 Comments

15 Responses to “Polly Toynbee”

michael_green
July 20th, 2009 @ 2:37 pm

I agree that there is no ultimate egalitarian end game. That's why 'social democrat's must be open minded about their means, and even their ends.

We can all agree on theoretical ends of power, wealth, opportunity, freedom and security for everyone. But the best way to achieve this will change as we the world changes and as we learn more about the world.
treborc
July 20th, 2009 @ 11:04 pm

Polly is like a hot day it's normally followed by a cold one, one day she is the left the next she is to the right it depends on what she is writing and for whom..
annandrews
July 21st, 2009 @ 10:25 am

We really could do without all the luvvies
SaltaireSam
July 21st, 2009 @ 5:42 pm

As ever, Polly Toynbee hits the nail right on the head. Unless New Labour radically changes itself, there is no party for people of the left to vote for any more. Blair, Brown and their chums should be ashamed of their record. Just take education – remember education, education, education? – all we have to show for 12 years of New Labour is a few buildings, faith schools and students leaving university with big debts and no jobs

They keep banging on about choice. People shouldn't need to choose a good school for their kids, we should be providing good schools for all kids in their neighbourhood. That means raising taxes so that class sizes can be drastically reduced.

It is a symbol of how far from its roots the labour party has moved that at a time when capitalism and the markets have been shown up in all their frailities, the Tory party – led by another generation of old Etonians – are about to romp home in a general election.

It's all very well for people like Alan Milburn and James Purnell to find their left values now – where were they when they were in power, sucking up to the city and allowing the wealthy to get wealthier and the poor to remain with few chances?
Graeme_Cooke
July 21st, 2009 @ 7:12 pm

Annandrews – we didn't want the debate to be confined just to serving politicians – and are keen to have people on the Left from outside politics giving their perspective. Who would you like to see contributions from?
annandrews
July 21st, 2009 @ 7:53 pm

Agree with treborc about Polly blowing with the wind. Have been on Members Net but this has been allowed to become too all pals together discussing almost anything but politics which may be a good or bad thing. Basically I suppose I want to hear from people who think like me! Since the age of 5 listening to my Welsh Labour father ranting about “they ought to do this and they ought to do that and calling for a throwaway society to keep the workers in a job” I was a committed Tory until I saw the light starting about10 – 15 years ago but I had to go through a lot of pain to get there. Just normal people really, those who are not arrogant, greedy and who care about the world. The Sir James Lovelock type. He'd be a good start.
annandrews
July 21st, 2009 @ 8:03 pm

I feel that Labour is/has just finished its birth pangs and we had to go thro the Blair/Brown era to get here. This is the really interesting bit, where we go from here. We had to get away from the period of the me me me time of the power of the unions. Now we have to do the same thing to the Right wingers that we/they did to us, make them see how arrogant and greedy and selfish they are.
radicalpete
July 22nd, 2009 @ 9:17 am

Hi Polly,I am Mr Average London Brit, born into the world of have and have nots, as for me I never had string to hold my pants up. Real working class, dad a coal man before the war, mum did charring for those in Willesden Green and me just factory fodder and cannon fodder at eighteen.We were Labour(old) and there NEVER was a left or right wing in those days, that came when clause four was ripped up with the help of Ginger Kinnock and Tory Blair, then we had the right and left wing of a once proud socialist party. On the right wing we had the Magnificent Four who were the treacherous ones who formed the Lib Dems and help put the Maggot into power for all those year.
The right wing were also the catalyst for the wholesale greed we see in all the political parties,with a money making machine called PFI, The Maggot sold the bulk of the POEPLES wealth to her mates and the scum in the city of London and Tory Blair continued the same sell off of the Family Silver with PFI.

No Polly, I am a old fashioned socialist who still believes (naively) that Labour was created by the working class to look after the needs of the working class, but the GOD called money has corrupted New poxy Labour so much that it has become UN-ELECTABLE, so if it came to the choice of names to call myself, left wing suits me fine
radicalpete
July 22nd, 2009 @ 9:39 am

As a foot note to this article I actually created another political party, called he The Peoples Party of England, it has just three member, me, my wife and my son.It was just a dream for it takes stacks of loot to even campaign. I have registered and paid my dues to The Electoral Commission and I have left on ice until needed

Why now?

After seventy odd years, a lifetime for some and a witness to politics from Churchill to the shower now in power, I have reached the obvious conclusion that politics favours the rich and powerful and the poor are just a means to reach a goal in their life, which is the complete dominance of the underclass.

Just once in my seventy years have I ever seen a political party take up the cause of the poor and underclass, this was way back in 1945 when the one and only real Labour Party came to power.

Ever since then the poor and underclass have been left by the wayside to defend for themselves with a succession of different governments promising the earth but keeping very little of their promises.

With the advent of devolved government in the United Kingdom and with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland practising some form of self government for the good of there respective parts of the UK.

But England and the English have yet to be given this status, its OK for everyone else, but the English, now is the time for England and the English to shout out in one loud voice “What about us”

We would like our students to get a FREE university education and free prescriptions for all who fall sick in this England of ours and every other perk the rest of the UK is getting .

So this is why now we in England need a political party that looks after the welfare of all its English folk and to this end The Peoples Party of England (The PPE) was created to do just that. The Labour Party is in the hands of big business who care little for the plight of the underdog and the word Socialist is now a taboo word within New Labour.

The Conservative Party has never done a blind thing for those who have shed their blood in two world wars to bring about change in the way of life of those who were never born with a silver spoon in their mouth
They have a distasteful arrogance and an air of being superior to everyone out side of there elitist circle

The Liberal Democrats are the dregs and drop outs of both the Labour and Conservative Parties and have never been in power since the dark days of Lloyd George which on reflection speaks volumes for this miss match of people.

The Peoples Party of England wants the status quo to change, with a fourth power in British politics that will speak up for those on the bottom rung of the social ladder, as the Labour party once did.

The PPE is not in politics for the shear sake of power, but to make sure that the weakest in English society are kept out of poverty and if it means doing deals to achieve these goals, then so be it. The PPE is a party that is multicultural which means you are English, no matter your culture or religion, if you were born here, you are English, first and last.

On no account will any religion or culture interfere with the politics of The PPE, we take the view that your culture and religion is a private thing and should be practised away from politics.

Racism of any kind will be grounds for expulsions from The PPE, for it goes against our principle of English, first and last, regardless of your colour.

We also believe in the right of every English man and woman to join a trades union of their choice, regardless of the organisation that they work for, they have the right of free choice which will not be denied to those who live and work in England.

The PPE needs people with many talents to form local groups all over England who share the same views as us, it is vital to spread the word amongst our fellow English folk that we intend to make our mark in Parliament and we need millions to join and vote for The PPE to give the English the voice that is so needed in the halls of Westminster .

“Just one, we are weak, millions move mountains, in Parliament we speak”

raicalpete(real name omitted)

Leader and founder member

The Peoples Party of England
martinsimon
July 22nd, 2009 @ 11:23 am

Politicians, red or blue, are running scared of the media, lawyers are only good for picking fights and next to uselesss at coming up with solutions, marketing people convince us all we need is more, the entertainment industry keeps us slumped in our couches and they all think of the rest of us as little more than a massive market place for selling their expensive services.
They cannot be trusted and we are allowing their scare stories to dominate our social environment and our relationships with each other. Why?
davecole.org » blog » Blog Archive » OpenLeft: a response
July 23rd, 2009 @ 1:19 am

[...] Toynbee Sunder Katwala Jon Cruddas James Purnell Dave Cole Polly Toynbee Original To live on the left is to live optimistically, believing in progress despite set backs, hoping [...]
planetpmc
July 24th, 2009 @ 9:50 am

oh polly, i fear you may have unravelled the dilemma i now have with the left. i am starting to find myself being less optimistic about progress, the disappointments becoming too frequent and the set backs nigh on invincible. i know that trust does not prevail against selfishness and greed, no matter how much i want it to. the underdog more often than not deserves to be also the underclass of society, by his own doing. the social democrat is cheated of his fairness and goodwill by such an underclass, whose definition of sharing far exceeds mine. in short, i despair of society.
philipgoff
July 24th, 2009 @ 6:50 pm

Politicians don't feel they need to talk about equality, because the public aren't demanding it.

We need to make a party's having progressive policies on equality a vote winner in the way that a party's having progressive policies on the environment has become a vote winner.

It is only when this happens that we have a chance of progress towards a more equal Britain.
radicalpete
August 25th, 2009 @ 11:07 pm

Beans on Toast

As I sit here eating my beans on toast
I contemplate my world and times
The darkness of my world is all provaiding
With no light at the end of this long tunnel
A world without end, someone once said
“Rubbish” I reply, for I see just a glimmer

But not a glimmer of hope for human kind
For this creature is long past his sell by date
Nature has planes afoot to end his disastrous reign
Slow but surly Homo Sapiens will vanish from earth

The seas will rise as the icecaps melt into fresh water
Thus diluting the life blood of all of Earth’s salty seas
Life in the seven oceans will all but disappear forever

Global warming will accelerate for our seven oceans
Played an important part in recycling carbon dioxide
But that’s all bye the bye as I demolish the last bean
My plate is clean and I settle down to re-read
The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist once more
To make sense of my life and times on Earth

For Robert Noonan (Tressell)

Peter (This book was once labours bible)
radicalpete
August 25th, 2009 @ 11:14 pm

Thatcher the God of Greed

We all must remember why the UK is plunging into the deepest financial crises it has ever know in its history, even deeper than the Wall Street crash of 1929 …

For Britain it stared in the 1980s with the most reviled political leader this country has ever spawned, a member of a party whose philosophy has always been and always will be “stuff you lot, we come first”, a party of pure selfishness and ultimate greed….

The Tory Party under the leadership of “The Maggot” decimated our country with her sick sense of worth and greedy attitude to our Nationalised Industries and spectra of the City Spivs rubbing their hands in glee at every “sell off” of what belonged to every man woman and child in Britain. “The Maggot” first made her mark in British politics when she decided that the British school children of the day should not receive free school milk, the first vile sign of her true greedy nature….

That period of time was repugnant to witness; the “Family Silver” was being stolen from its rightful owners, the people of Britain, who were powerless to change the course of history….

Starting with the sale of GPO, this galvanised the “pig-in-the-troth mentality of the City and the Tory party, who grabbed and gobbled whole swathes of the “Silver” that has kept many of them and their aristocratic families in great luxury, even to this very day….
At the time the “Maggot” was worshiped like a demy God by all those foul creatures in the City and a great deal of her party gave praise to the greedy one, mass unemployment was her vile tool to keep the “other half” in their place at the bottom of the heap, typical of many party tricks she lavished on the British public….

She single handed insured closure of nearly all our state owned coal mines and alienated great masses of the British public against her, but her down fall came when the greedy bitch tried and failed to bring in the hated Poll Tax, which caused mass riots all over Britain….

Her sell-by-date had passed; her own gutless MPs were drawing straws to tell her to pack her bags and go, for they knew that she had become a great liability to them winning another election that was on the horizon…..

But the this evil creature had done more damage to the British culture than the historians will ever admit when its time to write her obituary, for she fostered the notion that greed is good and there is no such thing as society, the attitude adopted by millions of young Britons who became known as Yuppies, who are amongst the leading political tribe of the Tory party, for they have the same uncaring attitude as there mentor, the “Maggot”. …

The scene is now set for the final phase of “The Thatcher God of Greed”; politics in Britain is brim full of Thatcher’s children, even in the Labour party her philosophy of “Sell everything” for a fat buck is alive and well, but now it’s called PFI…..

No checks and balances are in place, even after the greedy banks went bust, they still worship the criteria that greed is good and until an example of rightful punishment is meted out to those you stole the worlds wealth, greed will always be good….

Radical Peter 2009